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Complaint - Broke (resolved )

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  • Victim
    The entire CF
  • GUID
    0
  • Suspect
    Chinese
  • Date
    1/26/2020
  • Text Evidence
    Abused admin powers during an event by refusing to call an all charge until after the faction that he was on had an advantage.
    Later, allowed his own faction to use artillery when the other faction had no cannons. After he was informed about the problem, is response was "I'm not changing the map or resetting"
  • Visual Evidence

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Hello, actual CF Faction leader here. ^-^

Depsite the much better wording in the now up post in the general discussions, this is the official complaint so I will be be making my official adendum here. However I will be providing suggestions in the general post just for the sake of improvement (Apologies in advance for any formatting jank, I am performing this atm on my mobile xd).

 

Now, first mentioned was the all charge incident in the third round of today's campaign battle. To put it politely it was... awkward at best and horrible at worst. At the time the round had carried on for a sufficiently long enough time and pretty much the entire GE and CF force was engaged in a big chase near the CF's right flank. This would have been an ideal time to call an all charge because of the time spent already and since both forces were already conveniently together in the same area. However, such was not the case. Broke actually requested tha,t TA NSL and myself an admin, call an all charge. I personally heavily pondered the idea but did not want to go ahead with it because I did not want to be removed from the team because of "bias" or overstepping my bounds of control, despite being told otherwise in the past. So I merely suggested the idea to the other admins in the internal chat where it was bantered about but dwnied by Chinese and I'm pretty sure Taters (don't quote me on Taters due to the lack of screenshots and my spotty memory of that :P). Meanwhile, the chase had ceased and the GE retreated back across the river in the centre of the map to a couple buildings near the bridge. This would have been an even more ideal time to call all charge due to the now even position that both sides had established. However this was not the case and so the CF took to the offensive to try and close the battle, as unfair as their situation was and failed. I would also like to note that anyone who claims that an all charge should not have been called due to the number imbalance of alive players should look to past events and even casual admining instances of all charge being called during uneven odds (sometimes even with the disadvantaged faction winning through sheer skill). It was after most of the CF forces were massacred in this offensive that the admins who (seemed to be) were running the event called the all charge and the CF lost. I would also like to note that it was said in the internal admin chat that "Not every round needs to end in an all charge." Something to which I would say is true, but the timing was impeccably ripe for the calling of one that round and the lack of it surely cost the CF a victorious round. This is why the CF feels so cheated.

 

Next is the map chosen for the latter half of the battle... (oh boy :/)

The CF had a problem with their artillery, namely that while I was trying to set it up during the reset, as per usual, I didn't beat the reset and the cannon dissapeared. Broke is complaining in his post about Merkel's lovely shot that killed 4-6 of our men while the problem was still being sorted and unbalanced the teams, after which nothing was done to rebalance them. This is something that I don't care for, it was fate and it couldn't be controlled. What bothered me was that instead of changing the map, the admins merely said "No arty for either team" and refused to change the map. After an assessment of the battlefield I found that artillery really was an excellent equalizer for the map and really controlled where the enemy could and could not go, but the lack of it also unbalanced the map. Without the artillery, nothing was stoping either side from simply rushing the centre of the map and holding there. While you may argue that the CF should have simply rushed the centre and not complained about the situation, think for a moment. Would the CF rather engage in a combat they think they will lose? Or would they rather fight their enemy on even footing with fair balance. I personally would opt for the latter, but the lack of artillery removed that as a viable option. So what ensued was probably one of the most boring NRP campaign battles I have ever attended about which I could really do nothing about, despite being the leader of an entire faction. This all because someone decided they were too lazy to change the map to something more balanced and fun even after fighting a full round.

 

To conclude: I'm not asking any admins to step down, or for the GE to give us the rightul title of winner of the campaign (though that would be nice if they wanted to do that xd). I simply want the team to be able to reflect on these mistakes, recognise that they happened, and try to ensure they never happen again. Chinese was responsible for most of the actions and problems listed above but I have no quarrel with him, he's only human after all and no one can please everyone or be perfect. Like I said, I only want the truth to be considered and reflected upon.

Thanks for your time and attention, I'll now be going to Broke's less meme-y post to provide some suggestions to fix the problem (might as well xd). Yours truly ~ The Guy

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I know I’m not the most active person ever right now but I thought I chine in with some ideas and issues.

 

(Note: I don’t have a faction affiliation and have played for both sides in this campaign, and am just going off what was described by The Guy above. Also I’m typing on my phone cause reasons)


 

1. All charge call

I think The Guy is right but I disagree with his sentiment that there is such a thing as a ‘ripe time’ to call All Charge. The reality is there is no such thing as a ‘fair’ All Charge except if its called in the first second of the round.  ‘...lack of it caused surely cost the CF a victorious round’ demonstrates this, as The Guy is essentially saying its beneficial to CF if called then.

 

Sadly, calling an all charge is beneficial to whichever side has more people at that point (since the losing team can no longer defend) or if their team is closer together. This can never be fair except if the teams are completely equal and similarly positioned which is rare to come by.

 

Initially the rules in the first few campaign was that all charge would never be called because of this (except if its like 1 troll left who is running away against 30 people). However, in the later campaigns, the feedback was that this caused rounds to be way too long with too much camping, so it was bought back in.

 

I think a suitable compromise should be that all charge can only be called with fair warning (e.g. all charge in x minutes if both teams are still camping). It essentially means regardless of who has the advantage then, all charge will still be called (although ofc it could just mean the winning team will just camp until its called but don’t really see a better solution).

 

 

2. Changing the map

Changing the map to something that wasn’t pre-agreed is sure to cause a shitstorm about biasedness (are the maps still pre-agreed with faction heads beforehands nowadays? It used to be. If not I would definately propose they are so each faction can’t complain later about biased map-picking since your faction head OK it). How many times have we seen complaints about biased maps in the past?

 

I personally agree that just disabling arty is fairer (probably beneficial to CF tbh since GE has god-emperor Merkel, probably the person with the all-time highest kill count in NRP history).

 

I suggest that to avoid said problem about Merkel already having some kills, there should be a designated admin / faction rep on each team without whos approval the round can’t start (used to be a thing but I don’t know if still is). Again can’t complain then about biased admins since your rep ok’ed for the round to start.

 

 

3. Designated campaign admin to do all the slays etc. (mentioned in the guy’s other post)

This was a rule in the first campaign (or at least during the first part of it, I can’t remember if it was continued) when the admin team was larger and I doubt anyone would disagree with it in principle.

 

In practice, however, with the admin team a bit short of experienced manpower, I don’t know if its possible. Will anyone admin be willing to do this and not play in the campaign events? And before you say its their job, keep in mind admins are player volunteers not employees.

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Quote

Initially the rules in the first few campaign was that all charge would never be called because of this (except if its like 1 troll left who is running away against 30 people). However, in the later campaigns, the feedback was that this caused rounds to be way too long with too much camping, so it was bought back in.

And in those later campaigns, Duke would always call an all charge when it was about to be over, just to prevent one faction from constantly retreating and regrouping (delaying, some might say).

 

Quote

I think a suitable compromise should be that all charge can only be called with fair warning (e.g. all charge in x minutes if both teams are still camping). It essentially means regardless of who has the advantage then, all charge will still be called (although ofc it could just mean the winning team will just camp until its called but don’t really see a better solution).

A better solution would be to operate as we have been for the majority of this campaign: After so many minutes have passed, an all charge is called regardless  of the players left alive, or their positioning. This has often been about 48 minutes left in the round, consistently. It's not an official rule or standard, but it's the standard that the pubs and most of NRP have learned to accept and appreciate (hence pubs from both sides spamming the chat "wheres the all charge?")

 

Quote

Sadly, calling an all charge is beneficial to whichever side has more people at that point (since the losing team can no longer defend) or if their team is closer together. This can never be fair except if the teams are completely equal and similarly positioned which is rare to come by.

And when you literally refuse to call it because it's not beneficial for you or your faction, then that's pretty clearly a conflict of interest. If you're acting as campaign admin, you should be detached from the factions. You shouldn't care who wins - only that it ends soon so people can respawn/start playing again.

However in this case, the CF had more people. Chinese refused to call for the all charge until after he and his faction grouped up and blew up the bridge allowing access to their defenses. The only way the attackers could get through is by walking underwater (which destroys ammo and makes people incredibly slow).  "Destroying ammo" shouldn't matter since during all charge the campaign admin should also remove all ammo but in this instance, the GE was able to fire multiple volleys during all charge. I'll say it again in case the reader missed it: Ammo was not removed until after the GE fired multiple volleys.

 

Quote

I personally agree that just disabling arty is fairer (probably beneficial to CF tbh since GE has god-emperor Merkel, probably the person with the all-time highest kill count in NRP history).

Arty was disabled, but not before Merkel got multiple arty kills. In such a case, it would be better to say "okay nobody use arty" and then reset the map. Instead, Chinese said "well its only a few people. You guys still have the numbers advantage. No reset."

 

Quote

2. Changing the map

Changing the map to something that wasn’t pre-agreed is sure to cause a shitstorm about biasedness (are the maps still pre-agreed with faction heads beforehands nowadays? It used to be. If not I would definately propose they are so each faction can’t complain later about biased map-picking since your faction head OK it). How many times have we seen complaints about biased maps in the past?

The maps weren't the complaint. The poor handling of a few situations was the complaint. I don't know if they're still pre-agreed with faction heads. Chinese asked me how the maps looked okay when i was in the middle of an event for another game and I said it was fine. Again though, let me stress: The maps were not the problem. Poor handling of bad situations was.

 

Previous events has set the precedent for the campaign admin to reset the map after declaring a new rule such as "Nobody use artillery".  If you really want to stick to changing to a new map for whatever reason, then just do a random map. It makes most sense to have a random map anyways, since we were fighting on a plains tile.

 

Quote

In practice, however, with the admin team a bit short of experienced manpower, I don’t know if its possible. Will anyone admin be willing to do this and not play in the campaign events? And before you say its their job, keep in mind admins are player volunteers not employees.

Nobody is saying they can't play in the events. I'm saying the fact that an admin is dedicated to one team or the other is a conflict of interest. It's the very reason why, when CF was on the field, I would do very minimal admining (a slay here or there for rambos, call all charge at the expected time.

 

To quote WaterPolo: "Yeah, I usually try to call it when the clock hits 48 regardless of the amount of people alive."

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As the saying goes:

 

                    "I dont negotiate with terrorists" or in this case, retarded americans.

 

 

The All Charge:

      I called an all charge at a time which I believed was suitable, prior to the GE crossing the bridge, there was continuous fighting (hence no need for an all charge) I called it once it became clear that neither team was willing to fully cross the river. Just because the CF were shit in melee and bottled it doesnt mean it was a bad All charge. I stand by my decision. 

 

Artillery:

      Im not resetting 3 minutes into a round, two rounds in a row. That is a sure fire way of killing the population, especially considering you were 8 men up. 

 

CF admin Bias:

      Dont whine about admin bias when you have an admin who calls an All Charge then orders your faction to disobey it and not charge.

 

In summary I have better things to do than argue with some irrelevant American on the internet (thats broke :DDD) so fuck off and stop being salty that you bottled the campaign.

 

 

 

 

 

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All Charge
I was the one who said "Not all rounds need to end in an all charge." I don't pay all too much attention to who's winning in a battle, I switch teams based on boredom, a friend being on one team or another, etc. Often at the start of a round, it's based on which team I'm more likely to get footguard/sapper/arty in. I spoke against an all charge because I could see that one team was defending with pretty inferior numbers, and sometimes I think it's more fun for a round to end in that sort of situation than in the melee-fest we ended up with.

 

Arty

No idea, wasn't following it. Pretty sure I crashed like a minute after the map change, my Warband doesn't like running for extended periods of time anymore. Bush files not found or some bullshit.

 

Admin Bias
I cannot remember what CF and GE stand for with any degree of certainty. I don't give a shit about which team wins. I'm there to try and get the event to run smoothly, not to favour one team or another. 

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54 minutes ago, Chinese_Propaganda said:

CF admin Bias:

      Dont whine about admin bias when you have an admin who calls an All Charge then orders your faction to disobey it and not charge.

We didn't have an admin who called an all charge while then ordering my faction to disobey it. I ordered them to disobey it. I'm not an admin you dolt.

 

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chineseToday at 12:10 PM

atleast I admin

Again: I'm not even a part of the admin team.

 

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In summary I have better things to do than argue with some irrelevant American on the internet (thats broke :DDD) so fuck off and stop being salty that you bottled the campaign.

Yes, you made that quite clear by responding multiple times and uploading a video to youtube.

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7 minutes ago, TichePotato said:

All Charge
I was the one who said "Not all rounds need to end in an all charge." I don't pay all too much attention to who's winning in a battle, I switch teams based on boredom, a friend being on one team or another, etc. Often at the start of a round, it's based on which team I'm more likely to get footguard/sapper/arty in. I spoke against an all charge because I could see that one team was defending with pretty inferior numbers, and sometimes I think it's more fun for a round to end in that sort of situation than in the melee-fest we ended up with.

 

Arty

No idea, wasn't following it. Pretty sure I crashed like a minute after the map change, my Warband doesn't like running for extended periods of time anymore. Bush files not found or some bullshit.

 

Admin Bias
I cannot remember what CF and GE stand for with any degree of certainty. I don't give a shit about which team wins. I'm there to try and get the event to run smoothly, not to favour one team or another. 

This complaint is about Chinese. Not you.

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Complaint resolved after speaking to both sides.

We will take this complaint serious and try to implement new rules into Campaign 6.0  like not allowing Admins to be Officers during events to avoid conflict.

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