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El_Presidente

Community Staff Complaint

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I don't think Presidente convincing people to his opinion can be considered gunboat diplomacy. Sure, I wouldn't disagree that he can get heated but honestly after several years of being quite consistently correct but rarely actually listened to I imagine he gets easily frustrated.

Also Presidente's whole "I could delete the files" thing is his (albeit woefully articulated) way of saying "if I wanted to actively hurt the server I'd have done it in one of the Five-Gorrillion moments when I had the ability to.

I do think the whole mess over Presidente assigning himself a rank was stupid since realistically out of everyone on the server the only two people more deserving of the benefit of the doubt are Ewok and myself.
While I don't believe every incident here is the subject of malice or a vendetta I do believe a serious look needs to be taken at either what has happened or at how these things will be handled in future.
 

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Before I should state Im fairly new to all the warband politic shenanigans as i only really got into it when i joined the 19th in march, before that i was just an nrp & minisiege pleb. I should also state that pres was the one to introduce me to a lot of the best parts of warband and something of a mentor(ish) so forgive me if seem biased in anyway. 

 

For what pres said about the campaign maps being biased, i was at the event where duke chose the unbalanced map and he made an apology that seemed genuine, I was also present one time when he came online to choose a map and he asked my opinion as we looked through, he seemed in no way looking for a unbalanced map. 

 

On the otherhand, he seems to have become too obsessed with his role as campaign manager what with renaming himself campaignmin and stuff, i dont want to nit-pick but that may say something about his personality as campaign manager is more of a temporary role. His responses in pres' ss also seem imature and spergy but i have no further insight to offer on that front.

 

I think a revision of his role is at least an obvious necessity due to all the controversity with Florian, wilhelm and now pres, but i think everyone needs to chill out and quit being spergy.

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Obsessed? Barely the campaign is handled by all the campaign devs, im just one of them.

 

"himself campaignmin" - NRP_Campaign_Admin is the name that the admin running the day of the campaign is supposed to have to distinguish who is running the campaign and who's just spotting occasional rambo's , its NRP tradition not me wanting to have that name.

 

"His responses in pres' ss also seem imature and spergy but i have no further insight to offer on that front."  So does all of this whole shitstorm

" as campaign manager is more of a temporary role." Excuse me but I helped start this and im going to finish, during my time I have incorporated campaign duties into the jobs of CS given that the basic workload wasn't much except for the odd idea here and there that needed some work, so i dont think of it as a temporary role.

 

"I think a revision of his role is at least an obvious necessity due to all the controversity with Florian, wilhelm and now pres, but i think everyone needs to chill out and quit being spergy." Wilhelm, and Waterpolo are two people I had issues with and look, now it's all solved. No need for a revision given that the campaign is running fine. What might be necessary is a restructuring of the campaign team.

 

"His responses in pres' ss also seem imature" Very ironic that you should say that given the fact that pres wouldn't do his campaign moves because of this - and how exactly do they seem immature? I'm pointing out all the holes in this swiss cheese of an argument he presented.

 

What seems obsessive to me is digging up a grave that was dug ages ago, all of this was sorted and fine until yesterday.

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Oh boy I don't like involving myself in this kind of threads but I think I can shed some light into some of duke's actions discussed here.

Standard disclaimer: Not an admin, not a CS basically a pleb that has involved himself with NRP politics since JB was murdered, and for that I will only post about stuff I actually know about. I have no idea what happened the last weeks as I had distanced myself from the campaign, so I won't comment on that. I won't commenton Duke's feud with the other admins either because I wasn't involved with them.

 

First of all on the topic of Pres's sacking as CS. Although not stated here, pres had abused his powers as CS numerous times something that I privately objected to Duke about. There were incidents where pres has deleted my posts, especially on #regimental_recruitment for reasons he refused to explain (or even admit happened. I had to ask Mini to look at the logs). The contents of that post were kinda inflammatory, something that I hadn't realized at the time, and which I fixed after some people politely asked me to edit. Still, pres's response was clearly breaking the rules and was issued a warning by Duke.

 

After these, he repeatedly attempted to use the Botmin to post recruitment  messages for his regiments. Now I don't mind people recruiting on lobby, although (I believe) it's against the rules. However the message included links, which was certainly prohibited. I and some other people had to go out of our way to convince Ewok to remove the messages after pres blatantly refused to.

 

Now, I think that these offenses, minor as they be, among many others didnt warrant a punishment (hence why I never talked about them) but they certainly must have tipped off Duke about the reliability of Pres. Which is why I assume Duke panicked when pres assumed power within the discord without notifying anyone. 

 

[Unnecessary pics of the incidents]

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.c5bd6eb470f6966ee594b06f51b0c36e.pngimage.png.64e55f2656be6328fe680996b941cb4a.pngimage.thumb.png.9bc20661073fec84a0d311ddf421cc0f.png

 

 

As a campaign dev I involved myself quite a bit with the mechanics of the campaign both before and after it's launch, so I can confidently say Pres is completely wrong on point 3. I will quote myself from the last thread I made

Quote

Although this was exaggerated here, objectively, pres's actions have been enough for me to deduce he works 90% for himself or for the advancement of his regiment. I have evidence of pres abusing his power in the discord for this exact reason and pretty much everything advocated in the campaign dev channel had a positive effect on the CC. Again,you could claim  that those were just a coincidence, but due to the sheer amount of improbability that has, I will  just apply Occam's razor and say it's MUCH more likely that Pres was biased ,than that his suggestions impacted the campaign in such a positive way for the CC by luck.

I can go on and on with details and proof of these, but I will spare you the time unless you aren't convinced.

Basically, pres has changed the rules of the campaign multiple times to influence its outcome; Deducting AP from the GR in the first round, vetoing already established rules (vetoing wasn't a thing-he simply forced it), or coercing duke into giving him random maps in the siege of the GR's capital, despite that being against the rules of siege maps provinces having only biased maps

Spoiler

unknown.png

 

TL;DR Duke's actions can be at least understandable from the fact that pres has actively abused his powers before, with him not showing any remorse for them, which made  him very likely to repeat them. I know that doesn't  justify them, but it can give you a broader picture of the whole thing

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dimitry

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Actually deducting points from the GR was Dukes idea I'm pretty sure but he just backed down. I didn't '''try''' anything I had a discussion with Duke and he wanted to deduct 3 points initially even though I think I suggested it should be 1. In the end he backed down inspite of promising to the contrary. When you break the rules you are punished. GR and CF allied = against rules. End of discussion. 

 

The accepted precedent of the campaign was that all 3 campaign leaders had to agree to rule changes. You cried over rules that weren't even on the list. Attrition was it? I'd be surprised if @DukeOfWellington denies this. Me and him can agree on some things. All those rules I changed wow! Me, the head of campaign, changed so many rules with my authoritarian diktats! I thought Greeks were used to military juntas? 

 

Look Dimitry let me be honest with you. You've got mental issues. There's no way in hell somebody who bans people from their discord for calling recruits 'loyal', continuously rages ingame incessetnly when nobody gives a rast arse of a reply and is a compulsive liar doesn't have issues. Psychopathy perhaps? 

 

As for the deleting thing your own colonel told you not to make insulting recruitment messages, you made insulting recruitment messages, I deleted them after I believe getting a second opinion and then you ended up stop making insulting recruitment messages. Even if it were considered 'abuse' it pales in comparison to what I've received. 

 

I don't know what's cracked in your head Dimitry but good fucking luck in life hahaha you're going to need it! 

 

Didn't the 65th fuck off already? 

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17 minutes ago, El_Presidente said:

Look Dimitry let me be honest with you. You've got mental issues. There's no way in hell somebody who bans people from their discord for calling recruits 'loyal', continuously rages ingame incessetnly when nobody gives a rast arse of a reply and is a compulsive liar doesn't have issues. Psychopathy perhaps? 

 

As for the deleting thing your own colonel told you not to make insulting recruitment messages, you made insulting recruitment messages, I deleted them after I believe getting a second opinion and then you ended up stop making insulting recruitment messages. Even if it were considered 'abuse' it pales in comparison to what I've received. 

 

I don't know what's cracked in your head Dimitry but good fucking luck in life hahaha you're going to need it! 

 

Didn't the 65th fuck off already? 

Personal insults don't belong on this thread. I only wanted to help people understand Duke's position hence why I deliberately kept myself from saying anything inflammatory or opinionated about you. Also Im talking as a mere player, not as a 65th. If you have any complaints about my actions on our discord feel free to add me on steam so I can explain, as it's completely irrelevant to this situation.

 

21 minutes ago, El_Presidente said:

Actually deducting points from the GR was Dukes idea I'm pretty sure but he just backed down. I didn't '''try''' anything I had a discussion with Duke and he wanted to deduct 3 points initially even though I think I suggested it should be 1. In the end he backed down inspite of promising to the contrary. When you break the rules you are punished. GR and CF allied = against rules. End of discussion. 

You publicly supported and pushed for it, duke didn't proceed because he realized there are better options than that. For this instance a rule was put in place after the battle which stated that no co-operation between factions should happen. You -among others of course- then tried to penalize the GR for breaking a rule that didn't exist.

 

Quote

As for the deleting thing your own colonel told you not to make insulting recruitment messages, you made insulting recruitment messages, I deleted them after I believe getting a second opinion and then you ended up stop making insulting recruitment messages. 

Normally you would expect a CS to give a warning or message me about it, or communicate through the HoCS about the situation. You did none of those, enforcing a rule that didn't exist (as the message wasn't insulting-many people I asked agreed on that), without admitting you did it, and later denying responsibility for it.

 

30 minutes ago, El_Presidente said:

Even if it were considered 'abuse' it pales in comparison to what I've received. 

 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

 

I am fully aware this is derailing the thread so I won't post anything other than clarifications for the above

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Just so everyone knows I predicted this THREE months in advance and just incase anybody actually doubts my sincerity or what I'm saying I suggest you read this. (this is about Duke fearing I'd coup him because I could assign a discord role) 

 

Screenshot_20190103-145505.jpg

 

Screenshot_20190103-145516.jpg

Screenshot_20190103-145535.jpg

 

Don't forget I warned you and asked for a permanent solution three months ago. This was before the waterpolo abuse. Just remember who stuck up for you when people shit on you yourself all those years ago. @diomedes

 

@Retired ScandyRemember you said about people not listening when I'm right? Here's a perfect example enclosed for your viewing. 

 

I don't see any claims of 'jepordising' the community in there. Maybe you refer to when I picked this server up from the gutter? Clearly allowing the server to exist has allowed unnamed undesirables to fester, hurting the community. 

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Literally delays campaign giving devs a harder time and says he wants to it to die because of his personal opinion on someone 

"not jeopardising the community in any way"
"hurting the community. " somewhat ironic given that the community was fine before this drama and it will remain just fine after, have you considered your attitude of "everyone here is 1 IQ , i am far superior and i saved nrp all hail me" might be the one hurting the community? I mean it already caused multiple people to not attend campaign events...

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What's amazing is seeing you peddle the same recycled arguments after I've just provided more proof of even diomedes calling you out on your power tripping. 

 

Mate I didn't delay anything. Having a holiday over New years is not an unreasonable request, how many times were all the moves made 5 days in advance? Oh wait, none, what a surprise. 

 

You're lucky nobody will actually read this and see what you are. 

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This is getting a really petty now.

 

Your both bad as each other what duke did was not the worst but was a problem which could of been resolved with talking with pres before removing him and actually explain why you was removing him rather than just straight up removing him. " I don't care if pres did not want to talk in pm's or what ever pres does".  Pres you should of just talked to duke and listened to what he had to say rather than doing your general reeeeeeing at everything.

 

It also does not help that everyone is throwing he said she said quotes and not actually having proof to back what your saying up because it's really useless to anyone and just making this complaint look like a huge fucking mess. 

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Minisiege might have a point.

Also pres when is that from? months ago? well the poll i did is from just yesterday so i think my evidence is slightly more relevant than yours :nwdab:

also You were the one peddling 3 points which i originally agreed with after you convinced me but the campaign devs sobered me so i warned them.

LIBTARD DESTROYED 

im done spending hours writing replies to something that could have been solved in minutes.

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The main issue with the removal of Presidente is lack of communication. Duke is allowed to remove his own staff as long as he has good reasons (the same is true for myself). If Duke had communicated properly with Presidente it is likely this drama would have been avoided. In future Duke should communicate properly when dismissing staff and take up their lack of performance or whatever their fault is with them long before removing them and try to get them to correct it. Duke's previous faults such as deleting messages/unfair mutes were actually abuse and further actions will result in reprimanding (as discussed in the last complaint).  Further action from either side will result in punishment for whoever is accountable. If Duke wants to restore Presidente to CS it is up to him but further dismissals without communicating will also result in punishment.

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